Cow manure

[flowerbug]

Selling any animal in the food chain that has had antibiotics is illegal until the withdrawal time is met. Using milk from a treated animal is also illegal until withdrawal time is met and milk passes inspection. That is why I go a little crazy when people talk about differences when there-in reality-is very little, to no differences. How serious are the milk producers? Sell contaminated milk, you buy all the milk tainted by your milk and the cost of clean-up.

no, the point is pretty simple, if you are paying a premium for uncontaminated milk that is what you should be getting. nothing crazy there. it should be as labelled and described by the regulations. i don't think the regulations go far enough in some regards, but your comments above are pretty clear that you don't understand the issues surrounding GMO and why some of us find it wrong to eat.

 

[Nyboy]

What is so bad about antibiotics. My dentist has me on a low dose of Doxycycline 2x a day for as lonf as I want to keep my teeth

 

[seedcorn]

@flowerbug I clearly understand the discussion. Some don’t understand the ramifications of what they believe or the science of what they are discussing. This for another thread.

@Nyboy The largest fear of feeding/using antibiotics with livestock is that the antibiotics will no longer work for humans.

 

[flowerbug]

when you apply any selection pressure to a population and do not completely kill off the population you will eventually get resistant organisms. be this viruses, bacteria, weeds, animals, people... so long term use of antibiotics means you are selecting for those that are resistant to the antibiotic. anywhere you go you will spread them around and then others may get them too.

when you apply antibiotics to a system you kill off certain ones which leaves gaps that the resistant ones and others can exploit.

a more systems level approach would be to figure out what you are doing which is encouraging the rotting bacteria and to stop doing those things and to do other things instead which encourage a more diverse environment (non-rotting bacteria).

the other aspect of the use of antibiotics is that some can influence populations long after they leave your body (in sewage, and then anywhere that the outflow ends up). so if you get enough people using certain antibiotics then they can create resistant populations anywhere downstream or in a field if the sludge is used and hasn't been properly treated.

 

[Jared77]

@Nyboy The largest fear of feeding/using antibiotics with livestock is that the antibiotics will no longer work for humans.

100% correct along with causing issues with bacteria in other places such as septic tanks and so many other places we need bacteria to break things down. However the human element is the most concerning because it affects us directly so people make that the big priority.

 

[ducks4you]

When your dr keeps giving you the Same antibiotic, like Amoxycillin, ask for an alternative drug. Bacteria can become immune to a drug if exposed to it too often and then the medicine won't work for you.
Funny, aspirin still works every time you try it.

 

[ninnymary]

@flowerbug I clearly understand the discussion. Some don’t understand the ramifications of what they believe or the science of what they are discussing. This for another thread.

@Nyboy The largest fear of feeding/using antibiotics with livestock is that the antibiotics will no longer work for humans.

Seed, if an "organic" cow was given an antibotic for say a month. There is no "clearance" time when that cow can be brought back in as organic? Not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly. I would think that after a period of time being off the antibotic for example 6 months that the cow would be safe enough to be able to go back in to the fold.

Mary

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't want to go to a world without antibiotics, too much death and suffering. I have no problems with responsible usage to actually treat something. To me responsible usage means to not use antibiotics as a preventative. Only use them to target a specific condition when it is warranted, either humans or animals. If you start taking one, take the full course, do not stop when you are feeling better. The last bugs to be killed are the ones with the most resistance to that specific antibiotic so you risk breeding a superbug by stopping too early. it's not just overuse that can create a superbug.

That carries over into other things. I don't treat chickens for mites, lice, or worms unless mites, lice, or worms are present. I don't put any insecticide, fungicide, or any other "icide" (organic or non-organic) on my plants unless I have a specific target. Then I try to pick one that bests targets what I've going after and does the least harm to the environment. I try to use it in a way that threatens beneficials as little as possible, like spraying late in the day so it will have lost a lot of strength when the pollinators return in numbers the next day. I don't care if it is natural or man-made, a poison is a poison and needs to be treated with respect. To be "certified organic" you can only use approved natural "icides". There are some natural "icides" that do so much damage to the environment that certified organic bans them too. There are more criteria than whether or not they are natural.

@ninnymary once a cow has been treated with antibiotics she is forever not organic. That's the way certified organic works. The rules are the rules and that is a rule they chose. There are no loopholes there. Another interesting rule is that for a plant to be considered organic it has to be grown from organic seed. It's parents have to be organic. No so with animals. It doesn't matter if their parents are organic or not. As long as they eat nothing except certified organic approved food after they are born or hatched or\\and are otherwise treated as organic, animals can be considered organic. Try not to think on that too hard.

Mary, I understand your thinking. To me, once the withdrawal time for antibiotics, other drugs, or pesticides has has passed, you are good to go. But that is not true for certified organics. Once tainted always tainted. That' justs the way certified organics works.

 

[bobm]

I don't want to go to a world without antibiotics, too much death and suffering. I have no problems with responsible usage to actually treat something. To me responsible usage means to not use antibiotics as a preventative. Only use them to target a specific condition when it is warranted, either humans or animals. If you start taking one, take the full course, do not stop when you are feeling better. The last bugs to be killed are the ones with the most resistance to that specific antibiotic so you risk breeding a superbug by stopping too early. it's not just overuse that can create a superbug.

That carries over into other things. I don't treat chickens for mites, lice, or worms unless mites, lice, or worms are present. I don't put any insecticide, fungicide, or any other "icide" (organic or non-organic) on my plants unless I have a specific target. Then I try to pick one that bests targets what I've going after and does the least harm to the environment. I try to use it in a way that threatens beneficials as little as possible, like spraying late in the day so it will have lost a lot of strength when the pollinators return in numbers the next day. I don't care if it is natural or man-made, a poison is a poison and needs to be treated with respect. To be "certified organic" you can only use approved natural "icides". There are some natural "icides" that do so much damage to the environment that certified organic bans them too. There are more criteria than whether or not they are natural.

@ninnymary once a cow has been treated with antibiotics she is forever not organic. That's the way certified organic works. The rules are the rules and that is a rule they chose. There are no loopholes there. Another interesting rule is that for a plant to be considered organic it has to be grown from organic seed. It's parents have to be organic. No so with animals. It doesn't matter if their parents are organic or not. As long as they eat nothing except certified organic approved food after they are born or hatched or\\and are otherwise treated as organic, animals can be considered organic. Try not to think on that too hard.

Mary, I understand your thinking. To me, once the withdrawal time for antibiotics, other drugs, or pesticides has has passed, you are good to go. But that is not true for certified organics. Once tainted always tainted. That' justs the way certified organics works.

 

[ninnymary]

I don't want to go to a world without antibiotics, too much death and suffering. I have no problems with responsible usage to actually treat something. To me responsible usage means to not use antibiotics as a preventative. Only use them to target a specific condition when it is warranted, either humans or animals. If you start taking one, take the full course, do not stop when you are feeling better. The last bugs to be killed are the ones with the most resistance to that specific antibiotic so you risk breeding a superbug by stopping too early. it's not just overuse that can create a superbug.

That carries over into other things. I don't treat chickens for mites, lice, or worms unless mites, lice, or worms are present. I don't put any insecticide, fungicide, or any other "icide" (organic or non-organic) on my plants unless I have a specific target. Then I try to pick one that bests targets what I've going after and does the least harm to the environment. I try to use it in a way that threatens beneficials as little as possible, like spraying late in the day so it will have lost a lot of strength when the pollinators return in numbers the next day. I don't care if it is natural or man-made, a poison is a poison and needs to be treated with respect. To be "certified organic" you can only use approved natural "icides". There are some natural "icides" that do so much damage to the environment that certified organic bans them too. There are more criteria than whether or not they are natural.

@ninnymary once a cow has been treated with antibiotics she is forever not organic. That's the way certified organic works. The rules are the rules and that is a rule they chose. There are no loopholes there. Another interesting rule is that for a plant to be considered organic it has to be grown from organic seed. It's parents have to be organic. No so with animals. It doesn't matter if their parents are organic or not. As long as they eat nothing except certified organic approved food after they are born or hatched or\\and are otherwise treated as organic, animals can be considered organic. Try not to think on that too hard.

Mary, I understand your thinking. To me, once the withdrawal time for antibiotics, other drugs, or pesticides has has passed, you are good to go. But that is not true for certified organics. Once tainted always tainted. That' justs the way certified organics works.

Thank you for explaing it so well. It's clear as a bell! I like your view point on antibotics and all the "icide"s. I think that way too.

Mary