2021 Little Easy Bean Network - Bean Lovers Come Discover Something New !

[flowerbug]

I was afraid to start the topic because it seems to me truly bewildering & the more deeply you descend the more you grasp at smoke....

historical naming and then descendents named based upon the parents even if they crossed and had different looking children. to me they have always meant just the beige background with the red lines or the reverses that sometimes happen that are sometimes solid or speckled with the beige color.


the dictionary i just checked says:

: a shell bean characterized by pods splashed with carmine or red and white and by white or buff-colored seeds marked with red.

yep, that's what i think too.

 

[flowerbug]

Red Eye Ranger OT3 and OT5 to me look like variations within the variety. yes they probably should be segregated out before replanting but they're close enough for eating purposes. the others i'd cull out completely and eat them since i have so many similar beans like that happening too. just can't grow them all unless they have some traits i'm after. i do tend to try a few of everything just to see if they do have a different colored flower or a better growth habit, but most of the time there's not enough difference that i can continue with them.

 

[Zeedman]

I hesitate to pose this question as I'm sure it's been asked many times before, but given Verna's, I can't help but finally put it down - what on earth is a horticultural bean? I've done a bit of research here and there on that subject as that term comes up so much in regards to beans, but I've never really found anything that seemed to explain it satisfactorily. Then there is the 'cranberry bean' designation - another mystery to me which seems parallel to the hort designation. As far as I can tell, it tends to be a beige bean with maroon speckles. But, I have a 'White Horticultural' bean and it's just pure white. Is there such a thing as a 'Black Horticultural' bean? In fact, the seed catalogue I picked WH from had the beans divided into sections, one of which was 'horticultural beans' and none of them really matched one another in the looks department. I wonder if some beans just get that label put on them and that's about it? No real rhyme of reason?

You can add "October bean" and "Borlotto bean" to the possible 'horticultural bean' synonyms (as if more confusion was needed). If it's any comfort to you @heirloomgal , confusion over the term 'horticultural bean' has been occurring for a long time. The fact that the word 'horticultural" itself is used in both gardening & agricultural contexts does little to alleviate that confusion. Various definitions of 'horticultural bean' given over the years are often contradictory; so absent clarification by some higher authority (which is probably not forthcoming) that confusion is likely to remain inextricably attached to the term for as long as people grow beans. As an Appalachian bean aficionado once posted elsewhere, few garden terms are more confusing & contradictory than the bean lexicon.

In my opinion (if my opinion meant anything) 'horticultural' as a category should be used when a bean variety's best use is as a green shelled bean (shelly), as opposed to 'snap' or 'dry'. Whether the hull of that variety is tender or tough should be irrelevant. "Best use", of course, may always be a matter of personal preference... most of my best & largest shellies (including Jembo Polish this year) are categorized as snaps. It's enough to make your head spin.

And given that any bean - including snap beans - can also be used dry, even the term 'dry bean' is ambiguous, unless you restrict its meaning to include only beans with an inedible hull.

This topic was discussed at length on Gardenweb years ago, back when the bean forum there was very active. Although I can't find where the discussion actually started (it flowed over into several threads) I've linked one of those threads below, which you may find interesting. There is documentation cited which supports the likelihood that usage of beans in shelly stage was once more commonplace. I tend to agree with the opinion that cultural changes since then, in the way that we consume beans, have contributed to our current confusion.
Horticultural beans

 

[Blue-Jay]

Bluejay77's Big Bean Show
Day 25- The Beans I Grew This Summer​

Rotebeerbohne- Bush Dry

Red Berry Bean comes to me in 2018 from Susanne Alex in Willich, Germany. This beautiful bean did very well here this summer. 14 inch tall productive plants that produce 5 inch long pods.


Salt Springs Gold - Bush Dry

18 inch tall plants produce six inch long pods that contain large yellow-tan beans. A bean that Robert Lobitz selected from a packet of bean crosses he received from Dan Jason of Salt Springs Seeds of Canada. The seeds take a while after harvest for the pigmentation to develop. Seed is nearly white upon harvest.


Rotebeerbohne................................................................Salt Springs Gold

Schokoflecken - Bush Dry

Sent to me in 2017 by Cordula Metzer of Labenz, Germany. I let the seed sit several years before I loaned it to someone on the west Coast to grow out. Then I didn't see the bean again for another two years. I didn't receive any reports from the grower so I thought for sure it's gone forever. Then it came back in 2020 one day in the mail. Grew it out this year successfully.

Scorpio - Pole Lima

Another of the plentiful number of variants that resulted from a cross with the tiny lima bean Ping Zebra. This bean is a little larger and earlier in maturity than Ping Zebra. Named after the eighth sign of the zodiac as it's maroon coloring is associated with this sign.



Schokoflecken......................................................................Scorpio

 

[heirloomgal]

You can add "October bean" and "Borlotto bean" to the possible 'horticultural bean' synonyms (as if more confusion was needed). If it's any comfort to you @heirloomgal , confusion over the term 'horticultural bean' has been occurring for a long time. The fact that the word 'horticultural" itself is used in both gardening & agricultural contexts does little to alleviate that confusion. Various definitions of 'horticultural bean' given over the years are often contradictory; so absent clarification by some higher authority (which is probably not forthcoming) that confusion is likely to remain inextricably attached to the term for as long as people grow beans. As an Appalachian bean aficionado once posted elsewhere, few garden terms are more confusing & contradictory than the bean lexicon.

In my opinion (if my opinion meant anything) 'horticultural' as a category should be used when a bean variety's best use is as a green shelled bean (shelly), as opposed to 'snap' or 'dry'. Whether the hull of that variety is tender or tough should be irrelevant. "Best use", of course, may always be a matter of personal preference... most of my best & largest shellies (including Jembo Polish this year) are categorized as snaps. It's enough to make your head spin.

And given that any bean - including snap beans - can also be used dry, even the term 'dry bean' is ambiguous, unless you restrict its meaning to include only beans with an inedible hull.

This topic was discussed at length on Gardenweb years ago, back when the bean forum there was very active. Although I can't find where the discussion actually started (it flowed over into several threads) I've linked one of those threads below, which you may find interesting. There is documentation cited which supports the likelihood that usage of beans in shelly stage was once more commonplace. I tend to agree with the opinion that cultural changes since then, in the way that we consume beans, have contributed to our current confusion.
Horticultural beans

Well said @Zeedman. A riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a mystery.

 

[HmooseK]

These two are beautimoose!

Bluejay77's Big Bean Show

Schokoflecken - Bush Dry​

​

Sent to me in 2017 by Cordula Metzer of Labenz, Germany. I let the seed sit several years before I loaned it to someone on the west Coast to grow out. Then I didn't see the bean again for another two years. I didn't receive any reports from the grower so I thought for sure it's gone forever. Then it came back in 2020 one day in the mail. Grew it out this year successfully.

Scorpio - Pole Lima

Another of the plentiful number of variants that resulted from a cross with the tiny lima bean Ping Zebra. This bean is a little larger and earlier in maturity than Ping Zebra. Named after the eighth sign of the zodiac as it's maroon coloring is associated with this sign.


View attachment 45895View attachment 45896
Schokoflecken......................................................................Scorpio

 

[Blue-Jay]

Bluejay77's Big Bean Show
Day 26- The Beans I Grew This Summer​

Skunk River- Bush Dry

A couple of times I have grown a dark purple Robert Lobitz legacy bean patterned similar to Jacob's Cattle. I'm growing out beans that Robert would have grown and named himself had he not passed away in 2006. Anyway this legacy bean I named Skunk River Trout and it produced a few red seeds last year in 2020 and I grew them this year as Skunk River Trout is very productive. Well this year the red bean I decided to call it Skunk River was tremdously productive 1.5 pounds (680 grams) of beans in an 8 foot section (2.4 meters) of row. The bean also reproduced a small number of the dark purple beans it came from and a small number lighter red beans. This bean is way more productive any Jacob's Cattle I have ever grown.

Skunk - Pole Dry

I will always be love with this wonderful bean. It produced heavily in really tough conditions this summer. I have to say this is one tough bean. When other pole beans didn't even grow in pole bean plot this summer. Skunk produced nearly as well as it does in any other season.



Skunk River.......................................................................Skunk River Off Type 1



Skunk.................................................................................Skunk River Off Type 2


Skunk River Trout - Bush Dry

This is the bean that produced a few red ones last year and I planted it again this year to see if it would produce those red beans again. It did but that was the only alternate seed coat that came from it and the number of red beans like last year was again a very low number. Maybe this productive bean is getting close to being stable. I hope it is.

Slovenia III

This bean didn't produce a lot this year in difficult conditions but what it did produce was of good quality. I've always liked this very pretty bean from Slovenia. Sourced for me by Harriet Mella of Liebenfels, Austria from Deaflora seeds in Germany.


Skunk River Trout...........................................................Skunk River Trout Off Type



Slovenia III

 

[jbosmith]

Skunk - Pole Dry

I will always be love with this wonderful bean. It produced heavily in really tough conditions this summer. I have to say this is one tough bean. When other pole beans didn't even grow in pole bean plot this summer. Skunk produced nearly as well as it does in any other season.

I love this variety for all of these reasons AND because I grew up near the Chester that it's sometimes named after

 

[Zeedman]

I love this variety for all of these reasons AND because I grew up near the Chester that it's sometimes named after

Me too, although I've grown it under its "Chester" alias. I love large-seeded pole beans as shellies, especially those with a short DTM - and this is one of the "keepers". It's due for replenishment in 2022, and I'm really looking forward to it. Hopefully in better bean weather than this year.

 

[Zeedman]

2021 legumes, continued. These were all repeats, due to very small yields in 2020. Fortunately, all of them recovered from the heavy June rains & did surprisingly well this year.



"Buff" adzuki, bush, from former SSE member Yuko Horiuchi in Canada. DTM 100 days. Bright yellow flowers, followed by slim tan 3" pods in clusters. Less colorful, but more tender than the red or purple adzuki that I grow. Normally much more productive, but I'm happy to still get 1# of good seed from a 12-foot row. Now I can use the 4# from my 2012 grow out to experiment with bean paste recipes... something to keep me busy this winter.



"Yellow Mungo", from the USDA 2007, collected in the Philippines. Sprawling bush plants, fairly inconspicuous yellow-green flowers, followed by clusters of 4" pods that turn black when dry. While the plants tolerate heavy rains, the seeds are fairly susceptible to damage from moisture. The bushes bear almost continuously; and while they do OK here, they would produce much more heavily in a longer season. 1.5 pounds from a 12-foot row, almost identical to my last grow out.