A Seed Saver's Garden

[Zeedman]

In these last few days I've become conscious of a unique quality peculiar to beans (mostly) as seeds - they are one of the only vegetables whose seeds are not identical and you can distinguish at least some of the varieties by seeds alone.

The visual & tactile qualities of beans are attractive. There's no doubt that those qualities are appealing for collectors; only tomatoes (and maybe peppers) have a more devoted following. Fortunately, after joining Beans Anonymous, I can pronounce myself free from their influence.

...

Don't throw things, you DO know I'm kidding, right??? (Owww... that bean hurt)

 

[Pulsegleaner]

In these last few days I've become conscious of a unique quality peculiar to beans (mostly) as seeds - they are one of the only vegetables whose seeds are not identical and you can distinguish at least some of the varieties by seeds alone.

I agree beans are one of the easiest. I think this is because 1. Beans have an ICREDIBLY wide palette ("palette", in this case, referring to the all possible colors and patterns that can be.) and 2. Unlike a lot of other legumes and other seeds, there appears to be little to no link in beans between seed coat color and the presence or absence of deleterious/unpalatable components, so any color or color combination is more or less as likely to be saved and re grown as any other. Going hierarchically, I think it works sort of like this (note this list only applies to legumes being grown for consumption as mature dried seeds. Those that are intended to be consumed as immature green pods often have a more liberal set of rules.)

After the Phaseolus beans(common, lima and tepary), I'd say the next most wide "can tell them apart" legumes are the cow peas (and their close cousin, the Bambarra groundnut) They also have a wide palette, and little to no advantage of one color over another.

Then you start to get more limited. Soybeans have a pretty wide palette, but it isn't as wide as the others, and you start to be getting to beans where some of the more common uses more or less REQUIRE one color or another. (for example, if you are making tofu or soymilk (at least if you are making it to sell) you are more or less going to need a white/clear skinned, yellow cotyledon soybean, or your product won't be the snowy white the market demands. )

Favas probably sit next on the list. They have a decent number of possible colors and patterns, and there doesn't seem to be much preference for one over another (though the fact that a lot of the non tannish ones are from more isolated places and hence show up in the general market less might make you think there is.) but the color palette is a bit narrower, with shades of mostly tans, brown, purples, blacks and greens.)

Peas probably sit next. they have more or less the same possible palette as favas (plus brick red) but there are really only three "patterns", plain, speckled and marmorated (mottled) though a pea can be both #2 and #3. And here you DO get a bias towards white seed coats, since they tend to be thinner. But both yellow and green cotyledon peas are accepted in the market so that puts them a little higher on the list than the others below (and I keep HOPING that someday orange cotyledon peas will join them there for the increased health benefits).

Finally near the bottom, we get to the "minor" beans (azuki, urd, rice, mung, and mothe) These all have a fairly wide palette of colors but again only three patterns plain, black mottled, and pinto (patchy) (and I have only seen pinto on adzuki and rice beans, and it is so rare on both that I honestly can't tell if it can coexist with black mottling, as I have never gotten enough of them together at one time to attempt the cross.). And for all of these there is a STRONG market preference for one color above the others (to the point where a casual observer might not know other colors were even possible). To sell an Azuki or rice bean strain, it more or less HAS to be red, a mung HAS to be green, an urd sort of greyish black, and a mothe, tan.

At the VERY bottom is probably something like the lablab (hyacinth bean) where seed color is often important to tell you if the seed is safe to eat with minimal preparation, or whether you have to actually leach toxins out of it. Lablabs grown for consumption as green/purple pods can and are any color, but ones grown to eat for mature beans are almost invariably white (possibly with some black speckles for older types.)

That leaves a few that are hard to place. Lentils can be anywhere from tan/green through black, with or without speckles and/or streaks, but I'm not sure if one is considered better than another (except where the color is a selling point, like the Black Beluga).

Chickpeas only seem to come in shades of tan and brown, plus black, black mottled, and green. But this mostly applies to the desi (grinding type). For the Kabouli (soaking kind, a.k.a. the garbanzo bean we are used to seeing) I'm not sure if ANYTHING except white/transparent exists (note despite it's name, I consider Black Kaboui to be a desi type chickpea). And I wasn't sure green existed until I grew it myself (and confirmed that it is a legit color form, as opposed to immature chickpeas that have been dried in the shade, like a lot of sites said.)

Pigeon peas come in pinky red to brown (with a whole mix of splotches and speckles) as well as purple-black. I don't know is one is beloved above the others, except that the brown one (which is larger) seems to have a more or less worldwide distribution, whereas the purple black ones seems mainly confined to the Philippines.

Grasspeas are no longer common in cultivation, but I think the same rule applies to them as does to lablabs, paler/whiter is safer.

Wing Beans can come from tan to near black, but as this is primarily eaten as green pod, there is no real preference (though I have heard that, if you DO want to eat the mature seeds, you're better off with tan)

Guar beans taste pretty nasty anyway as mature seed but I have heard that the black/purple ones taste even NASTIER, and are rouged out when possible.

 

[flowerbug]

you don't have any black seeded peas?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I should also point out I can tell one type from another by seed for a FEW other, non leguminous crops.

I can SORT of tell one pumpkin/squash from another, at least between the ones I have saved (different sizes, different shapes, different distributions of corky tissue)

I can tell SOME melons/cucumbers apart by whether they have a "nose" on the seed near the connection point (kiwanos have a VERY prominent nose)

I can generally tell the seeds of the round luffa from the angled luffa by whether they have a "fringe" on the sides of the seed or not. Though that is not 100% reliable, you do get crossovers (there is also a very odd strain of round luffa out there that has white rather than black seeds, but I don't own that one.)

I can tell my "best" bitter melon (the giant one) from most of my others because it's one of only two black seeded ones I have.

I can tell some watermelons seeds apart by size and color (which is how I managed to avoid contaminating my Yamato White watermelons, I saw a seed in the packet that didn't look like the others and pulled it out.)

Finally I can usually tell the seeds of Purple Calabash from other tomato seeds, because the trichomes (seed hairs) are different (they're short and bristly as opposed to long and silky)

you don't have any black seeded peas?

Technically, no. When held to a strong light, all "black" seeded peas I have encountered have proved to actually be purple, so that's what I list them as.

 

[flowerbug]

Technically, no. When held to a strong light, all "black" seeded peas I have encountered have proved to actually be purple, so that's what I list them as.

that's pretty close to what i think about black seeded beans, but oh well. i'm not going to argue with anyone about it.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

that's pretty close to what i think about black seeded beans, but oh well. i'm not going to argue with anyone about it.

Well, there are a couple of ways to get to "visual black" in seeds (as someone is bound to point out, there is no "true black" in plants.) Really dark purple, really dark brown AND really dark red will all get you there (so theoretically would really dark blue and green, but actual "blues" in seeds are rare, most "blue" beans are actually more of a bluish purple.) So can getting a heavy enough "black" mottle on the seed (which is also usually actually purple) to the point where the mottle marks come together and become a wash. If the base color is reasonably dark, that will look like black as well (it if is really pale, like white or pale cream, you tend to get blue.)

That's actually one of the reason (besides rogueing out slow starters that might stay unimbibed underground and mess up future plantings) I always pre soak my rice beans before I plant them. Soaking them makes it easier to see, and I can then tell the dark purple and washed seeds (which I want to plant) from the dark red ones (which I don't)

 

[heirloomgal]

I agree beans are one of the easiest. I think this is because 1. Beans have an ICREDIBLY wide palette ("palette", in this case, referring to the all possible colors and patterns that can be.) and 2. Unlike a lot of other legumes and other seeds, there appears to be little to no link in beans between seed coat color and the presence or absence of deleterious/unpalatable components, so any color or color combination is more or less as likely to be saved and re grown as any other. Going hierarchically, I think it works sort of like this (note this list only applies to legumes being grown for consumption as mature dried seeds. Those that are intended to be consumed as immature green pods often have a more liberal set of rules.)

After the Phaseolus beans(common, lima and tepary), I'd say the next most wide "can tell them apart" legumes are the cow peas (and their close cousin, the Bambarra groundnut) They also have a wide palette, and little to no advantage of one color over another.

Then you start to get more limited. Soybeans have a pretty wide palette, but it isn't as wide as the others, and you start to be getting to beans where some of the more common uses more or less REQUIRE one color or another. (for example, if you are making tofu or soymilk (at least if you are making it to sell) you are more or less going to need a white/clear skinned, yellow cotyledon soybean, or your product won't be the snowy white the market demands. )

Favas probably sit next on the list. They have a decent number of possible colors and patterns, and there doesn't seem to be much preference for one over another (though the fact that a lot of the non tannish ones are from more isolated places and hence show up in the general market less might make you think there is.) but the color palette is a bit narrower, with shades of mostly tans, brown, purples, blacks and greens.)

Peas probably sit next. they have more or less the same possible palette as favas (plus brick red) but there are really only three "patterns", plain, speckled and marmorated (mottled) though a pea can be both #2 and #3. And here you DO get a bias towards white seed coats, since they tend to be thinner. But both yellow and green cotyledon peas are accepted in the market so that puts them a little higher on the list than the others below (and I keep HOPING that someday orange cotyledon peas will join them there for the increased health benefits).

Finally near the bottom, we get to the "minor" beans (azuki, urd, rice, mung, and mothe) These all have a fairly wide palette of colors but again only three patterns plain, black mottled, and pinto (patchy) (and I have only seen pinto on adzuki and rice beans, and it is so rare on both that I honestly can't tell if it can coexist with black mottling, as I have never gotten enough of them together at one time to attempt the cross.). And for all of these there is a STRONG market preference for one color above the others (to the point where a casual observer might not know other colors were even possible). To sell an Azuki or rice bean strain, it more or less HAS to be red, a mung HAS to be green, an urd sort of greyish black, and a mothe, tan.

At the VERY bottom is probably something like the lablab (hyacinth bean) where seed color is often important to tell you if the seed is safe to eat with minimal preparation, or whether you have to actually leach toxins out of it. Lablabs grown for consumption as green/purple pods can and are any color, but ones grown to eat for mature beans are almost invariably white (possibly with some black speckles for older types.)

That leaves a few that are hard to place. Lentils can be anywhere from tan/green through black, with or without speckles and/or streaks, but I'm not sure if one is considered better than another (except where the color is a selling point, like the Black Beluga).

Chickpeas only seem to come in shades of tan and brown, plus black, black mottled, and green. But this mostly applies to the desi (grinding type). For the Kabouli (soaking kind, a.k.a. the garbanzo bean we are used to seeing) I'm not sure if ANYTHING except white/transparent exists (note despite it's name, I consider Black Kaboui to be a desi type chickpea). And I wasn't sure green existed until I grew it myself (and confirmed that it is a legit color form, as opposed to immature chickpeas that have been dried in the shade, like a lot of sites said.)

Pigeon peas come in pinky red to brown (with a whole mix of splotches and speckles) as well as purple-black. I don't know is one is beloved above the others, except that the brown one (which is larger) seems to have a more or less worldwide distribution, whereas the purple black ones seems mainly confined to the Philippines.

Grasspeas are no longer common in cultivation, but I think the same rule applies to them as does to lablabs, paler/whiter is safer.

Wing Beans can come from tan to near black, but as this is primarily eaten as green pod, there is no real preference (though I have heard that, if you DO want to eat the mature seeds, you're better off with tan)

Guar beans taste pretty nasty anyway as mature seed but I have heard that the black/purple ones taste even NASTIER, and are rouged out when possible.

I wonder if there is such a thing as green tofu then? Until I read this it never occurred to me that this was possible. Hard to imagine it would have much eye appeal for the masses, but maybe there are places that make green tofu? I've seen those jet black chickpeas around, and while I've liked nearly every legume I've ever tried (even urad dahl) , the look of that one is just so off putting to me. It looks like charcoal. Brings up bad memories for me of working in a vet hospital as a teenager and the employment they had for powdered charcoal (and Sani-Flush). I can't think of a single other food I've eaten that is that black, unless it's... burnt. Maybe I should try it.

After trying fava beans for the 1st time in 2020, and then again in 2021, and having pretty fair success, I'm curious to try a few more based on the seed colour. There is one called 'Red Epicure' and it appears that it is actually an orange-y red. It is not easy to get a hold of, and the one company here who is selling it I'd prefer not to order from so I'm hoping it pops up somewhere else.

 

[Pulsegleaner]

I wonder if there is such a thing as green tofu then? Until I read this it never occurred to me that this was possible. Hard to imagine it would have much eye appeal for the masses, but maybe there are places that make green tofu? I've seen those jet black chickpeas around, and while I've liked nearly every legume I've ever tried (even urad dahl) , the look of that one is just so off putting to me. It looks like charcoal. Brings up bad memories for me of working in a vet hospital as a teenager and the employment they had for powdered charcoal (and Sani-Flush). I can't think of a single other food I've eaten that is that black, unless it's... burnt. Maybe I should try it.

After trying fava beans for the 1st time in 2020, and then again in 2021, and having pretty fair success, I'm curious to try a few more based on the seed colour. There is one called 'Red Epicure' and it appears that it is actually an orange-y red. It is not easy to get a hold of, and the one company here who is selling it I'd prefer not to order from so I'm hoping it pops up somewhere else.

Well, I've made green soymilk once or twice. It tasted perfectly fine. And the color isn't nearly as off putting as it sounds at first. It basically looks like melted green tea ice cream.

That being said another slight problem is that most green cotyledon soybeans are also black skinned. In fact, I suspect the only reason green cotyledon soybeans are still sort of common is that the black ones sort of act as a reservoir for the trait. Green cotyledon white skinned soybeans are actually sort of rare, because they are actively rouged out to keep the tofu lines nice and white. But in the black skinned, brown skinned and green skinned lines, where the beans are usually destined for black bean and soy sauces, no one can see the difference, so it doesn't matter. Which is why if you buy a bag of black soybeans and peel them, you tend to get a mix of yellow and green (in China; nearly every American bred soybean, even the black skinned ones, has yellow cots only).

The odd thing is that making white tofu from black or brown skinned soybeans is actually quite easy if you change ONE STEP of the process. Namely, it's easy to do if you DRY process the soybeans instead of wet process them. That is, instead of soaking them first and then mushing/pureeing them, you split them when they are still dry and winnow off the seed coats then. That's basically what I did when I made the green milk; I peeled each of the beans fist (it was a very small test batch, so I could do that). There might even be and advantage to this, since I believe @Zeedman said he read somewhere that black skinned soybeans are easier to digest than white skinned ones. Oh and before you ask if you wet process black soybeans the result is sort of an ugly purplish brown.

There is a similar sort of situation with azuki beans. Because one of their major uses is for an (red bean paste). it is sort of necessary for them to be red to be marketable. I have heard vaguely on the web of some places offering white (probably actually cream) azuki beans to make white bean paste for stealth uses where they want the flavor but not the color (sort of like chefs using white pepper in soups so they don't have black specks.) But I have no conformation of this.

 

[Zeedman]

After the Phaseolus beans(common, lima and tepary), I'd say the next most wide "can tell them apart" legumes are the cow peas (and their close cousin, the Bambarra groundnut) They also have a wide palette, and little to no advantage of one color over another.

And the runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus) with their limited color palette.

I can tell my "best" bitter melon (the giant one) from most of my others because it's one of only two black seeded ones I have.

If that was bait for a particular (and peculiar) fish, you've got a bite. Are you sure it is Momordica charantia?

 

[Pulsegleaner]

And the runner beans (Phaseolus coccineus) with their limited color palette.

Yes, I forgot those. Though I'm not so sure Runner beans have that limited a palette. Granted, all I have ever seen is pinks, reddish browns, blacks and whites, but it's not like I have seen every sort of runner bean seed out there. And there are one or two I have seen that seem to have patterns unique to them (for example, Ijevan #2, which I never got a chance to get from the Seed Zoo, I THINK I recall had black specks/streaks on a white background.)

If that was bait for a particular (and peculiar) fish, you've got a bite. Are you sure it is Momordica charantia?

Quite sure; I got them out of actual fruits (Chinese type bitter melon, as opposed to Indian type). Actually, given that I DID get them out of fruits, I suppose I am quite lucky that that particular fruit (which I got off a stand in Chinatown) was actually semi-overripe (so the seed was good). And when I say giant I MEAN giant (the fruit I got them from was only marginally shorter than a baseball bat, and about as big across!

Bitter melon seed IS usually tan but black ones are out there (the same way that luffa seeds are normally black, but I have seen creamy tan ones). Neither of mine are, but I seem to recall that black seeds are commoner in those bitter melons that produce white, as opposed to green, immature fruit (I say immature because we both know a fully mature fruit is orange, or maybe yellow for the white ones (I have never seen a picture of a mature white bitter melon fruit).