Zeedman
Garden Master
Well said. Ditto.
Discombobulated
- Thread starter digitS'
- Start date
flowerbug
Garden Master
An important purpose for posting the article was the links provided to support the author's argument that this pandemic has been devastating for some care communities.
"So, if we've already imagined these people as disappeared — and, to some extent, have treated them as such — then it is no surprise that the disproportionate vulnerability of people in nursing homes to dying from COVID-19..." that is the Chaplain's contention.
We can hold ourselves out in our determination not to be a burden on our offspring. Certainly, if the icu can keep us intubated and in a coma for an average of 3 weeks and for 3 months if necessary, we should provide some pre-instructions.
What we should really be careful with is the idea that people should be divided and bunched into those worthy and the devil take the hindmost. Our responsibilities may become too great and many of us cannot rise to shoulder the commitment personified by the German pastor released from Dachau by the Allies in 1945 who wrote "First they came ..."
Steve
I'll use up my quota of quotation marks: "Release of the elderly, which was a time of celebration for a life well and fully lived ... Jonas stared at him. 'Release is always like that? For people who break the rules three times? For the Old? Do they kill the Old, too?'" ~ Lois Lowry, The Giver
we've discussed end of life care for Mom extensively over the past several years. if she gets sick, no matter how, she doesn't want any hospital care at all. if she survives then we go on. if not then she gets cremated and then i go on. i can handle most minor issues and even a fairly number of things above first aid, but things like viral infections and internal issues, well, i'm not doing any surgery on anyone nor would she want me to beyond pulling some splinters and checking her feet for warts. the hardest thing to do would be to provide longer term care for dementia, but i am here all the time anyways so as long as there is no violence i think we can get along. right now she is ok and i am ok. we do go on together.
one moment at a time. we never know what comes next...- Thread starter
- #83
digitS'
Garden Master
Mom came out the hospital into 2 weeks of nursing home care. I visited everyday. She was already better while in the hospital but far from 100% and with heart problems that she had lived with for over 10 years, better was all that could be expected.
During the last week, she was talking, taking visitors, etc. I wheeled her into the tv room once or twice. My car was parked in front and I would come out of the building, walk past the window of the tv room and she would be gone, in that short of time - she had wheeled herself out of the common room to go back to her room. She was so happy to come home and was able to walk with a cane by then.
Dad was moved to a nursing home for 2 weeks. He was at a considerable distance but I visited 3 times. He was talking, taking visitors, etc. from the first. and had been that way pretty much through the 2 weeks that he was in the hospital. On one visit to the nursing home, I pointed out that we could see into the cafeteria from the window in his room and asked about him going there. He never had -- 2 weeks, he had never been in the cafeteria. He wanted to go home and could walk with a cane.
After six months at home he came to stay with me and then went on to "assisted living" for the remaining 5 months of his life. They had him using a walker there and he was getting around fairly well. Meals were not delivered to rooms, for the most part, so he had to show up in the cafeteria. The care workers and even other residents called him "grandpa." There was only 1 other resident that was as old as he was and there seemed to be questions about that guy's age. (It wasn't official, he didn't have a birth certificate. Things weren't always so formally documented 100+ years ago. If you want some experience with that, follow census information and see how some people disappeared and reappeared, birth years and locations changed from one census to another. Dang, I have several ancestors whose names were spelled differently ..!)
Anyway, what were the choices during what may have been end-of-life events? Mom had another 3 months of life, some of which was spent walking around the house, taking care of her personal needs, talking with people, looking out the window - she went from completely incapacitated in her bed to those activities, at least for a time. Dad went from not even wanting to visit the cafeteria and against the decision by his doctors to 9 months living at home, either his or mine. He was taking care of his pets and the remaining livestock, driving his atv and tractor during some of that time, going shopping, and to appointments. About half of his final months in the care home was getting around with a walker, watching tv and talking with his neighbors and visitors. He was showering and doing many things for himself, except laundry and cooking during that time. So, he had about 18 months of life after he was considered in end-of-life circumstances. He never made a choice about refusing food or care. At what point does someone lock him in a room so that he could die without costing anyone further attention or money?
Steve
During the last week, she was talking, taking visitors, etc. I wheeled her into the tv room once or twice. My car was parked in front and I would come out of the building, walk past the window of the tv room and she would be gone, in that short of time - she had wheeled herself out of the common room to go back to her room. She was so happy to come home and was able to walk with a cane by then.
Dad was moved to a nursing home for 2 weeks. He was at a considerable distance but I visited 3 times. He was talking, taking visitors, etc. from the first. and had been that way pretty much through the 2 weeks that he was in the hospital. On one visit to the nursing home, I pointed out that we could see into the cafeteria from the window in his room and asked about him going there. He never had -- 2 weeks, he had never been in the cafeteria. He wanted to go home and could walk with a cane.
After six months at home he came to stay with me and then went on to "assisted living" for the remaining 5 months of his life. They had him using a walker there and he was getting around fairly well. Meals were not delivered to rooms, for the most part, so he had to show up in the cafeteria. The care workers and even other residents called him "grandpa." There was only 1 other resident that was as old as he was and there seemed to be questions about that guy's age. (It wasn't official, he didn't have a birth certificate. Things weren't always so formally documented 100+ years ago. If you want some experience with that, follow census information and see how some people disappeared and reappeared, birth years and locations changed from one census to another. Dang, I have several ancestors whose names were spelled differently ..!
)Anyway, what were the choices during what may have been end-of-life events? Mom had another 3 months of life, some of which was spent walking around the house, taking care of her personal needs, talking with people, looking out the window - she went from completely incapacitated in her bed to those activities, at least for a time. Dad went from not even wanting to visit the cafeteria and against the decision by his doctors to 9 months living at home, either his or mine. He was taking care of his pets and the remaining livestock, driving his atv and tractor during some of that time, going shopping, and to appointments. About half of his final months in the care home was getting around with a walker, watching tv and talking with his neighbors and visitors. He was showering and doing many things for himself, except laundry and cooking during that time. So, he had about 18 months of life after he was considered in end-of-life circumstances. He never made a choice about refusing food or care. At what point does someone lock him in a room so that he could die without costing anyone further attention or money?
Steve
flowerbug
Garden Master
Mom came out the hospital into 2 weeks of nursing home care. I visited everyday. She was already better while in the hospital but far from 100% and with heart problems that she had lived with for over 10 years, better was all that could be expected.
During the last week, she was talking, taking visitors, etc. I wheeled her into the tv room once or twice. My car was parked in front and I would come out of the building, walk past the window of the tv room and she would be gone, in that short of time - she had wheeled herself out of the common room to go back to her room. She was so happy to come home and was able to walk with a cane by then.
Dad was moved to a nursing home for 2 weeks. He was at a considerable distance but I visited 3 times. He was talking, taking visitors, etc. from the first. and had been that way pretty much through the 2 weeks that he was in the hospital. On one visit to the nursing home, I pointed out that we could see into the cafeteria from the window in his room and asked about him going there. He never had -- 2 weeks, he had never been in the cafeteria. He wanted to go home and could walk with a cane.
After six months at home he came to stay with me and then went on to "assisted living" for the remaining 5 months of his life. They had him using a walker there and he was getting around fairly well. Meals were not delivered to rooms, for the most part, so he had to show up in the cafeteria. The care workers and even other residents called him "grandpa." There was only 1 other resident that was as old as he was and there seemed to be questions about that guy's age. (It wasn't official, he didn't have a birth certificate. Things weren't always so formally documented 100+ years ago. If you want some experience with that, follow census information and see how some people disappeared and reappeared, birth years and locations changed from one census to another. Dang, I have several ancestors whose names were spelled differently ..!
Anyway, what were the choices during what may have been end-of-life events? Mom had another 3 months of life, some of which was spent walking around the house, taking care of her personal needs, talking with people, looking out the window - she went from completely incapacitated in her bed to those activities, at least for a time. Dad went from not even wanting to visit the cafeteria and against the decision by his doctors to 9 months living at home, either his or mine. He was taking care of his pets and the remaining livestock, driving his atv and tractor during some of that time, going shopping, and to appointments. About half of his final months in the care home was getting around with a walker, watching tv and talking with his neighbors and visitors. He was showering and doing many things for himself, except laundry and cooking during that time. So, he had about 18 months of life after he was considered in end-of-life circumstances. He never made a choice about refusing food or care. At what point does someone lock him in a room so that he could die without costing anyone further attention or money?
Steve
to me it is when i am unable to care for myself and unlikely to improve. temporary illnesses can be gotten over. i am willing to get vaccinated to avoid some problems. so far they have not been a negative experience for me.
they are making some progress on research into things that bother me the most. will it be in time or will i just croak before? i dunno. the race continues...
- Thread starter
- #85
digitS'
Garden Master
I wonder why some choose to lead. Certainly, it is a balance for the many who choose to follow. At times, at least we are told, leaders were compelled because of others collective decisions. I'm not sure how much truth there is to that, not being a scholar on the subject of leadership.
I could say that I was a scholar of parenting, at least explaining parenting values retained and expressed in severe social crisis. I once wrote a thesis on that. It took some social psychology research to bolster my ethnographic skills before I could come to any kind of understanding. I was interested in people who were parents after they had survived the trauma of war and displacement.
@seedcorn 's grumpy gorilla
Yesterday was the anniversary of the eruption of Mt St. Helens. My son was visiting his mother in southern Oregon and anxious to come to this ash covered place while I was trying to keep him out of the mess. Yesterday, he was relating his feelings as a 9 year old during that event. I felt sorry for him back in those days.
Way back then, it was also a difficult situation for a young, single dad, trying to calm his fears and bring him home into what I wasn't sure would be a safe environment. It was a very tenative step into studying parenting in families of war refugees but I already had some experiences in that direction.
Inerrancy? Do you think that is what parents must assume? Yes, there is a strong element of that. After all, a 9 year old has had few experiences to draw from. He said that he thought of a volcanic eruption in terms of an apocalypse.
Nah. But, where does a parent fit? A leader? Inerrancy? How about "infallibitis?" Sounds like a medical condition, right? Some leaders have it and will error as we all must but strike out at criticism, more like a 5 year old than as an adult. Then, they double down. So much success!
Steve, rambling
I could say that I was a scholar of parenting, at least explaining parenting values retained and expressed in severe social crisis. I once wrote a thesis on that. It took some social psychology research to bolster my ethnographic skills before I could come to any kind of understanding. I was interested in people who were parents after they had survived the trauma of war and displacement.
@seedcorn 's grumpy gorilla
Yesterday was the anniversary of the eruption of Mt St. Helens. My son was visiting his mother in southern Oregon and anxious to come to this ash covered place while I was trying to keep him out of the mess. Yesterday, he was relating his feelings as a 9 year old during that event. I felt sorry for him back in those days.
Way back then, it was also a difficult situation for a young, single dad, trying to calm his fears and bring him home into what I wasn't sure would be a safe environment. It was a very tenative step into studying parenting in families of war refugees but I already had some experiences in that direction.
Inerrancy? Do you think that is what parents must assume? Yes, there is a strong element of that. After all, a 9 year old has had few experiences to draw from. He said that he thought of a volcanic eruption in terms of an apocalypse.
Nah. But, where does a parent fit? A leader? Inerrancy? How about "infallibitis?" Sounds like a medical condition, right? Some leaders have it and will error as we all must but strike out at criticism, more like a 5 year old than as an adult. Then, they double down. So much success!
Steve, rambling
- Thread starter
- #86
Zeedman
Garden Master
(ow)... 
(ow)... 
- Thread starter
- #88
digitS'
Garden Master
Hip!
Hip!
Hooray!
Craash ... Steve
Hip!
Hooray!
Craash ... Steve
- Thread starter
- #89
digitS'
Garden Master
This discombobulating information, I can't get out of my mind. I have too many connections with this.
When I was just a kid, we kids wanted to go swimming. Mom was very apprehensive because of polio. One of the local cases was only about 6 - 10 blocks from the nearest public pool. That should be "Three of the local cases." It was a family. The home was just behind a feed store we visited regularly. I was a kid but knew the location. This was before there was such attention to "rights of privacy" re health problems.
Local information may have been provided because, after the death of the father and the permanent disabling of the mother and oldest son, the family moved away. The mother used leg braces for the remainder of her life, ended up in a wheelchair in her 50's, and died when she was in her early 60's. The son had those Ed Sullivan shoulders ... for those of you who remember that television show.
Where did their extended family move the mom and kids? About 700 miles away to northern Idaho. Where I met them as an adult!
The second son and I are the same age. We were college roommates and gravitated towards each other. I learned his story and visited his mother several times. That began nearly 20 years after this family crisis. We have maintained a continuing relationship. We missed sharing some plant starts with him this month. We were all apprehensive about getting together when he was nearby for healthcare needs. (If I have to make a 200 mile round trip for another purpose, I think I'll see about dropping some off beside his front porch ...)
"Most people who get infected with poliovirus (about 72 out of 100) will not have any visible symptoms."
What is Polio?
www.cdc.gov
When I was just a kid, we kids wanted to go swimming. Mom was very apprehensive because of polio. One of the local cases was only about 6 - 10 blocks from the nearest public pool. That should be "Three of the local cases." It was a family. The home was just behind a feed store we visited regularly. I was a kid but knew the location. This was before there was such attention to "rights of privacy" re health problems.
Local information may have been provided because, after the death of the father and the permanent disabling of the mother and oldest son, the family moved away. The mother used leg braces for the remainder of her life, ended up in a wheelchair in her 50's, and died when she was in her early 60's. The son had those Ed Sullivan shoulders ... for those of you who remember that television show.
Where did their extended family move the mom and kids? About 700 miles away to northern Idaho. Where I met them as an adult!
The second son and I are the same age. We were college roommates and gravitated towards each other. I learned his story and visited his mother several times. That began nearly 20 years after this family crisis. We have maintained a continuing relationship. We missed sharing some plant starts with him this month. We were all apprehensive about getting together when he was nearby for healthcare needs. (If I have to make a 200 mile round trip for another purpose, I think I'll see about dropping some off beside his front porch ...)
"Most people who get infected with poliovirus (about 72 out of 100) will not have any visible symptoms."
What is Polio?
flowerbug
Garden Master
This discombobulating information, I can't get out of my mind. I have too many connections with this.
When I was just a kid, we kids wanted to go swimming. Mom was very apprehensive because of polio. One of the local cases was only about 6 - 10 blocks from the nearest public pool. That should be "Three of the local cases." It was a family. The home was just behind a feed store we visited regularly. I was a kid but knew the location. This was before there was such attention to "rights of privacy" re health problems.
Local information may have been provided because, after the death of the father and the permanent disabling of the mother and oldest son, the family moved away. The mother used leg braces for the remainder of her life, ended up in a wheelchair in her 50's, and died when she was in her early 60's. The son had those Ed Sullivan shoulders ... for those of you who remember that television show.
Where did their extended family move the mom and kids? About 700 miles away to northern Idaho. Where I met them as an adult!
The second son and I are the same age. We were college roommates and gravitated towards each other. I learned his story and visited his mother several times. That began nearly 20 years after this family crisis. We have maintained a continuing relationship. We missed sharing some plant starts with him this month. We were all apprehensive about getting together when he was nearby for healthcare needs. (If I have to make a 200 mile round trip for another purpose, I think I'll see about dropping some off beside his front porch ...)
"Most people who get infected with poliovirus (about 72 out of 100) will not have any visible symptoms."
What is Polio?
one of our elderly friends (they are both in their mid 90s) had polio which messed up his legs, but not so bad that he could not walk. up until the past few years he's been able to get around ok, but as his vision is bad he's having more troubles of late. yes, we constantly worry about them.
